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Raffi
7th August 2015, 07:01 PM
OK so the Ashes are over, now is the time to start rebuilding. We can't give any of these useless fucks the chance to make cheap runs in Australia then carry on in the team. So lets run the rule over the team. Yes this will be a knee-jerk reaction but i'm mad so :kanyeshrug:
To be honest I don't know much about who's coming thru the Shield ranks, so I'll let you guys that know more about that give your opinions on who should step in.


Rogers Retire His form is good enough to continue but he's nearly 38 and was likely to retire after the Aus summer anyway. May as well get a jump on it and try to develop another opener
Warner Keep Has had a poor series but has done enough recently to hold his spot for now
Smith Keep Has some things to work on after this series, but still our best player. Make him Captain now
S Marsh Gone 14 tests at an average of 34. Has had his chance and never really stamped his name on a spot. Is 32 as well so best case scenario we get an mediocre player for 3 years.
Clarke Retire Useless since his injury, looks lost and off the pace out there, his captaincy has been poor. Needs to go now for this team to move forward. Sad when a once great player goes out looking like a hack.
Voges Gone I like Voges, but he's had his chance and blown it. Is nearly 36 so not much future there
Nevill Keep Should take the gloves for the forseeable future.
Johnson Keep He doesn't do well in England but he's still lethal in Aus/SA conditions and is capable of good spells here and there. Adds handy runs when the batsmen collapse too.
Starc Rotate Would like to see Starc rotated out of the side with some of the other young fast bowlers we have. Needs some time in FC cricket to work on his consistency and accuracy.
Hazelwood Keep Hasn't had great success in England but he's still a great bowler. If he had a captain that knew how to use him, and someone at the other end that could build pressure and not bowl absolute pies he would take a ton more wickets.
Lyon Keep Has improved his bowling a lot imo and has bowled well this tour. Again would benefit from someone not bowling pies at the other end.

Others on tour:
Siddle Retire If they don't want to use him he might as well go. Average bowler in any case. We've got lots of more promising bowlers to develop.
Watson Retire lolcya
Haddin Retire lolcya
Cummins Keep Obviously has a future once he gets fit and plays some cricket
M Marsh Keep Not necessarily in the test side, but keep him in the mix while he works on his technique. Only 24 so theres upside there.

Rumblah
7th August 2015, 07:13 PM
I think we might see MJ retire after our home series, so I'd imagine Starc will stay in after that, probably forming a partnership with Pattinson.

Burns made 154 opening the batting today for Australia A, so if he wasn't a lock to replace Rogers, he is now. Interesting to note Usman Khawaja made 100 in the same match. Reckon his pages are stamped but runs are runs.

Big wraps on Pete Handscomb from Victoria, not too keen on him myself just yet, career average is 35 at the moment. Needs another good shield year, get that average above 40 then he'll have a strong case. Still only 24.

Chris Lynn another bright prospect, would like to see him spend the Summer in the ODI squad before a Test run next year.

Pace stocks are fine, could pick an XI of them. Probably bat better than our top order too.

Lyon is fine, deserves his spot for the future. Nev locked in at 7.

Triptanes
7th August 2015, 07:13 PM
:tear:

Think we are pretty sweet in terms of bowlers (if we work out a way to keep more of them fit). Batsman have always been the problem. Mainly due to the continued cycle of old 'favourites' failing away then coming home and doing enough to just stay in, then failing away etc. Need to give some young dudes a run for a few tests in a row at home. Not sure when the last time we did that was (probably Clarke...).

Also CA are rich as fuck. Any chance of some innovation like working with soil scientists or some shit at a uni and developing a centre where dudes can go and practice on pitches that simulate India etc. every now and then. Obviously not 100% replicable but :kanyeshrug:. Also maybe practice with some of these before going to England or something:
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hhVJV0kU0Xo/maxresdefault.jpg

Histrionics
7th August 2015, 07:39 PM
Would like to see Khawaja get another go. Was hard done by imo.

Ball So Hard
7th August 2015, 08:06 PM
swingking

:banderas:

Bunga
7th August 2015, 08:19 PM
Batting is the big issue, especially the ability to leave the ball/know where your off stump is/build an innings patiently. A byproduct of batting on roads/ ODI cricket & 20/20 cricket.

A guy I have high hopes for is Cameron Bancroft. Outstanding shield season last year, 22 years old, old fashioned opener who is happy to leave balls/ knows where his off stump is so a perfect foil for Warner. Justin Langer has really taken him under his wing, has a very high work ethic.

Played Under-17, Under-19 and Under-23 for Western Australia, he also has played several Test and ODIs for the Australian Under-19 cricket team; where he impressed with his high scoring ability, scoring 3 centuries, at an average of 50.90.

laz cat
7th August 2015, 08:29 PM
Burns made 154 opening the batting today for Australia A, so if he wasn't a lock to replace Rogers, he is now. Interesting to note Usman Khawaja made 100 in the same match. Reckon his pages are stamped but runs are runs.

Burns' 154 is about as relevant as Maxwell's 100 for Yorkshire the other day. Given he wasn't even opening in the one Australia A test he played, and averaged less than 30 during his county stint, doubt he's a lock for the home summer.
And Khawaja was made captain of the A team despite zero first class form, and only 2 shield matches last season. Selectors surely have him in the mix.

Expect S. Marsh for Rogers and M. Marsh for Voges to be the extent of our rebuild.

Maybe someone like Maddinson for Clarke if he retires, due to excitement factor. Maybe Burns to slot back in. MAYBE Ferguson, who has some strong FC form over the past few seasons.

Raoul Duke
7th August 2015, 08:43 PM
Ashes 2015: who are the contenders to break into Australia's batting order? (http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/the-ashes/ashes-2015-who-are-the-contenders-to-break-into-australias-batting-order-20150805-giskqy.html)

Pretty good article summing up the replacement candidates. Pretty slim pickings, a lot of younger players who still have a lot to prove, so the question is do we throw them in the deep end and go through some growing pains? Or opt for some older players as stop gaps until they have had more time in the shield to develop? The stopgap option worked brilliantly with Rogers, not so much with Voges. Having watched a lot of him, Cowan was super impressive early last year, I reckon he is absolutely one to keep in mind and not to be put on the discard pile just yet, certainly could have done with his temperament in this past 2 tests! Bancroft I think has a bright future but isn't ready yet, same with Handscomb.

Whilst the squad obviously needs a serious overhaul, having already dropped Watson/Haddin, Voges a cert to follow suit and Rogers retiring I suspect Clarke is going to stay, despite the fact he looks utterly done. They might well give S.Marsh more of a chance too in the name of not wanting too many new faces despite the fact it has surely been proven by now that he is not the answer.

Think you can pencil in for the Bangladesh tour.

Burns/S.Marsh
Warner
Smith
Clarke
S.Marsh/Khawaja
Maxwell (Disgusting but they will want another spinner)/M.Marsh
Nevill
Starc
Johnson
Hazlewood
Lyon

Personally I'd love to see them blow the team up, get rid of Clarke and build a new team under the leadership of Smith, this debacle has to be viewed as completely unacceptable and bring about wholesale changes, but history would suggest our selectors are unlikely to take such an approach.

Rumblah
7th August 2015, 08:50 PM
Think you're dead on with that side for :bun:gladesh Raoul Duke. Pretty certain Burns will open (provided CA aren't begging Rogers to hang around) so I think Shaun Marsh at five is likely. Maxwell will play.

Sledge
7th August 2015, 09:16 PM
Out of the old guard (Rodgers/Watson/Haddin/Clarke) I'd only keep Clarke. I think he has another decent year left in him at least and his upside is well worth giving him the chance to find it. But ideally he'd be doing this without the Captaincy which would obviously go to Smithy.

Especially if we're blowing the team up, he would hopefully be adding stability as we transition through. Kind of like how Gilly & Haydos stayed on for an extra year when Warne/McGrath/Langer/Martyn departed post 2007.

Rumblah
7th August 2015, 09:36 PM
Burns' 154 is about as relevant as Maxwell's 100 for Yorkshire the other day. Given he wasn't even opening in the one Australia A test he played, and averaged less than 30 during his county stint, doubt he's a lock for the home summer.
And Khawaja was made captain of the A team despite zero first class form, and only 2 shield matches last season. Selectors surely have him in the mix.

Expect S. Marsh for Rogers and M. Marsh for Voges to be the extent of our rebuild.

Maybe someone like Maddinson for Clarke if he retires, due to excitement factor. Maybe Burns to slot back in. MAYBE Ferguson, who has some strong FC form over the past few seasons.

Fair enough point, but lets not pretend CA don't consider One Day form strongly when building their Test squads. It's exactly why Maxwell is going to Bangladesh and exactly why they persist with Starc when he's bowling pure trash. With regards to him not opening, I was blown away by that. I think at one stage Travis Head opened? No fucking idea what they were thinking there. Judging him on a few county games is pretty harsh, he had one okay game making 57 and 87. Loads of single innings matches there too, but he averaged 52.86 in the last Shield season don't forget.

Ussie was named captain of Queensland today as well. Domestic captaincy is a weird one for me, does it mean he's the best leader or a bit like Steve O'Keefe? They know he ain't going up so he's a logical captain going forward. I hope he gets another chance because I'm a huge fan of his.

Wouldn't like to see Maddinson near the Test side for a while, reeks of early Warner before he got his shit together, but probably more careless. He did have a better FC year than I thought though.

laz cat
7th August 2015, 11:05 PM
Wouldn't like to see Maddinson near the Test side for a while, reeks of early Warner before he got his shit together, but probably more careless. He did have a better FC year than I thought though.

Just to clarify, wouldn't want to see Maddinson in the side either. But feels like when the team is getting smashed, selectors don't go for stability - they go for excitement, or X factor, or whatever.
Think Maddinson perfectly fits the bill for them to bring in and sprout youthful excitement, reinvigorating the team, positive attitude, etc.

Red Bear
8th August 2015, 11:31 AM
Maddinson is all promise little performance thus far

Lynn, Burns are promising. Silk and Bancroft a little further down the track. Handscombe and Stoinis were quite good last season also. There's a reasonable amount of 25 and under talent but, just has been the case since the good team went, little in that 25-35 age group that'd be ideal to slot in with some confidence.

Absolutely fuck all in NSW (maybe maddinson) to speak about batting wise.

Also, Hazlewood needs to hit the pitch a little harder, use his height and bounce. Lost his way a little the last couple of tests. Agreed better captaincy would help - sort of bowler who should be going in 6-7 over, good spells rather than short bursts.

Embers
8th August 2015, 12:21 PM
Im a better bowler then Josh Hazlewood. Most puzzling selection in recent times. The team id go with is

Burns
Warner
Khawaja
Smith
Lynn
Nevill
M.Marsh
Johnson
Starc
Lyon
Sandhu

Thats it for me. Cummins to replace Johnson when he goes and Cummins is ready. Clarke will retire obviously. Id like to see Burns + Khawaja given 2 years minimum of just non stop selection regardless of form. Give them a fair crack at it.

Rumblah
8th August 2015, 12:27 PM
:jagsfan:

Hazlewood had the most wickets for the series before the start of this Test.

Raffi
8th August 2015, 12:35 PM
Averages 21 with the ball at test level :wat:

Embers would obviously be averaging sub 20

Rumblah
8th August 2015, 12:37 PM
Not even gonna get into the fact that Sandhu has been bowling spin for the most part in India.

Picking two spinners :kerr:

Embers
8th August 2015, 12:47 PM
:jagsfan:

Hazlewood had the most wickets for the series before the start of this Test.

Which is akin to winning gold in the 100m sprint at a personal best time of 41.43 seconds in the No Talent Olympics

He has played fucking 5 games so lets not get our panties in a bunch over his "stats". Im looking at his actual bowling and the fact is, it wont cut it in the long term. Its just right arm poo. Players have been targetting him and smashing themselves out for the most part. Once teams play him a bit less like a Special Olympics athlete his average will go from 20 to 40 and he will be back to State cricket where he belongs

Rumblah
8th August 2015, 12:51 PM
What? None of that is factual.

His bowling average for the series including this debacle is still 25.75. In comparison Starc's is 27, Johnson's 39.81.

He's played 8 Tests and taken multiple wickets in 13 of 16 innings.

yeah_nah
8th August 2015, 01:13 PM
Lel

BobbyVanVeen
8th August 2015, 02:07 PM
Tassie wise, we got nothing. we are worse than SA.

Silk was shit last year. Doolan should have been dropped. we have 50 keepers. Bails performed like Clarke. And Cowan, our only bat, is back in NSW.

Generation next is looking aright though. Jake Doran is a star, bossing the under 19's ashes, and im pinning a lot of hopes on Caleb Jewell, as he is Tasmanian and scored a century in the same game. so good to look forward to something.

Axel.
8th August 2015, 03:58 PM
Would like to see Khawaja get another go. Was hard done by imo.

imo he's another smarsh. dominate domestic then fail international. he's a pretty attacking batsman but goes into his shell whenever we pick him for australia.

Axel.
8th August 2015, 04:00 PM
burns and lynn are locks to come in this year or the next - wouldn't mind seeing bancroft but can see him playing another shield year. patto to replace mj.

fender
8th August 2015, 04:29 PM
Khawaja is a dud, no thanks jeff.

BobbyVanVeen
8th August 2015, 05:56 PM
Bancroft needs another year. the top 3 batsmen(total) runs come from WA so we should be cautious about that result.

Im against totally changing the team and giving undeserving caps, despite what i have said. Burns is in, no doubt, Darsh out. easy one.

Im not totally convinced on Lynn. plays a lot of T/20 cricket, and i really really dont want another basher in the team. only scored 439 runs last year in 7 innings, of which 250 was scored in one knock. damm T/20 cricket sometimes.

If we need stop gaps until the Bancrofts and Silks are ready, then Ferguson(and Voges) would be alright. Even Klinger/Cowan if we get really really despite. M.Marsh can come back in(and out) when we need an all rounder. we really need that 20-25 generation to cover that 25-30 generation is giving us and WE NEED TO KEEP THEM AWAY FROM TOO MUCH HIT AND GIGGLE!!!!!.

CA wont drop Clarke. It will be up to him, and he will want to play in Australia i say. they wont have the balls.

So Rogers, please stay.
if not, Ferguson.(Burns opens)

Out:Marsh, Voges
In Burns, Marsh

this is on the normal aussie wicket. i dont want to think about the M word on spinning pitches.

If Clarke is out, Voges comes back in.

Triptanes
8th August 2015, 05:58 PM
Khawaja is a dud, no thanks jeff.

This. Probably wasn't helped by the selection methods around that time, but if you can't turn over the strike it makes things tough. Don't need to be able to belt 4's every ball, but have to be able to keep things ticking along.

Axel.
8th August 2015, 07:10 PM
The lynn 250 came when they were 3/50. :therealgoat: he changes the way he bats completely when playing different formats unlike some of the players in our team so I wouldn't worry tbh

BobbyVanVeen
8th August 2015, 09:24 PM
Clarke retiring at the end of the Ashes.

Been a great player, and great captain. Sadly never recovered from his back injury and then Hammy.

dont really like Smith as captain, just yet. but we have no one else.

Triptanes
9th August 2015, 04:55 PM
If you are planning on sacking this many players (Punter says up to 8 from this squad won't be seen again), when do the selectors, coaches and even higher levels start getting looked at as well? If you are turfing that many players its easy for the attention to be averted, but I think that suggests something wrong above them as well. Harder because those cunts aren't going to want to sack themselves, and are a more powerful and less public circle jerk of their own.

Rumblah
9th August 2015, 04:58 PM
Di Venuto needs to go. He's the batting coach. Sutherland was adamant Lehmann is safe.

Triptanes
9th August 2015, 05:08 PM
Sutherland himself should probably go IMO. He's been CEO since 2001, and that is long enough for him to share blame for a generation of players who can't play away from home. He makes the important decisions, and helps select people who fill important positions. Has a big influence on how things have gone. But it's only now he is going to 'fix' the problem.

I'm sure CA is making more money than every, but think just about anyone could do that with cricket in Australia.

Still Waiteing
9th August 2015, 09:03 PM
Safe:

Starc
Johnson
Hazelwood
Lyon
Warner
Smith
Nevill
M. Marsh

Anyone else on tour is gone for mine.

Rumblah
9th August 2015, 09:12 PM
I just wonder if one of Marsh or Voges may hang around until after our summer. Whilst I don't think either really deserve it based on anything they've shown during their Test careers, the side is going to be so inexperienced in the near future. Maxwell is going to play in Bangladesh so there's another casualty in just two Tests time.

Burns (2)
Warner (42)
Smith (32)
??
??
M Marsh (6)
Nevill (3)
Johnson (70)
Starc (21)
Hazlewood (9)
Lyon (45)

Like I guess the counter-argument is that neither SMarsh or Voges are experienced at the level either, but they've been around and would give Smith someone to rebound ideas with.

BobbyVanVeen
10th August 2015, 02:04 AM
The lynn 250 came when they were 3/50. :therealgoat: he changes the way he bats completely when playing different formats unlike some of the players in our team so I wouldn't worry tbh

Still not convinced. Does what every other Australian player does, pushes at the ball, which we have seen doesnt work when the ball is doing something or when terribly out of form.

he is a hitter, not a defender, and i have had enough of those players.

just look at how many 6's he has compared to everyone else last year in the shield.

rossi
11th August 2015, 01:21 AM
I like the 11 pace bowlers plan. Maybe fit Steve Smith in there somewhere and include Sandhu to bowl a few overs of spin.

But srs would we pick Sandhu in Bangladesh to see how he goes? I'm looking forward to see how Doran goes at shield level this season too.

Rumblah
11th August 2015, 01:31 AM
I like the 11 pace bowlers plan. Maybe fit Steve Smith in there somewhere and include Sandhu to bowl a few overs of spin.

But srs would we pick Sandhu in Bangladesh to see how he goes? I'm looking forward to see how Doran goes at shield level this season too.
Nah. Sandhu was bowling seam up the other day. Had to hit CA up with a pls respond before they replied doe.

BobbyVanVeen
11th August 2015, 03:48 AM
Sandhu, the guy who nearly averaged 50 in the shield last year.

One Day Bowler only. not good enough as a fast bowler or his Off spinners which he has brought out in recent weeks.

I hate to say it, but our best All rounder Spin option starts with M.....

i cant say his name cause it dishonors the baggy green.

An Agar, O Keefe or Zampa(lol) arent good enough with the bat to take the all rounder spot, despite averaging 25 FC. If they go with 2 actual spinners, the 2nd spot would go to Ahmed.

Rumblah
11th August 2015, 01:32 PM
Ahmed is pure garbage. How has that not been proven yet? Bryce McGain 2.0

Bunga
11th August 2015, 02:28 PM
SOK has to be the 2nd spinner.

He topped the wicket-takers list in the 2014 Sheffield Shield season with 41 scalps at an average of 20.43, and was the leading spinner in the competition the previous summer.

Overall he has a first class bowling average of 24.79 from 53 games & his batting average is a handy 29.30 which is decent.

Next point is that he is a natural leader. With Clarke now gone & the team lacking true leaders, someone with his experience would be invaluable to Smith. O’Keefe took over as New South Wales captain from Simon Katich in 2011 and only relinquishing it in 2014 so he could focus on his own game. O’Keefe was also school captain in his final year of high school.

Red Bear
11th August 2015, 06:07 PM
O'keefe is, from all reports, disliked by basically everyone he plays with. has stopped him getting anywhere. And his captaincy was nothing special.

BobbyVanVeen
11th August 2015, 11:03 PM
Ahmed is the 2nd spinner, as he was the back up to Lyon this tour.

his Shield final performance was pretty good as well. had a good year as well.

Still, i still think they will go with the M option in Bangers.

Bunga
12th August 2015, 12:18 AM
Ahmed bowls way too many loose balls every over, normally 1-2 every single over which just releases the pressure too easily.

Sure he can turn the ball & can bowl some very good deliveries but not consistent enough.

SOK may not turn it that much but he is very consistent, builds pressure well.

dylan123
12th August 2015, 12:52 AM
Was Khawaja the dude that did his acl last year? Or was that someone else?

Rumblah
12th August 2015, 12:54 AM
Was Khawaja the dude that did his acl last year? Or was that someone else?
Yup was Usman.

BobbyVanVeen
12th August 2015, 09:33 PM
Ahmed bowls way too many loose balls every over, normally 1-2 every single over which just releases the pressure too easily.

Sure he can turn the ball & can bowl some very good deliveries but not consistent enough.

SOK may not turn it that much but he is very consistent, builds pressure well.

seems the selectors agree with u, if u believe the current media reports about the OD squad.|

Triptanes
16th November 2016, 09:12 PM
Good to see the rebuild we discussed 15 months ago really has some solid foundations now :mick:

Rumblah
16th November 2016, 09:36 PM
Im a better bowler then Josh Hazlewood.

Must be pretty darn good then.

BobbyVanVeen
17th November 2016, 01:44 PM
Tassie wise, we got nothing. we are worse than SA.

Silk was shit last year. Doolan should have been dropped. we have 50 keepers. Bails performed like Clarke. And Cowan, our only bat, is back in NSW.

Generation next is looking aright though. Jake Doran is a star, bossing the under 19's ashes, and im pinning a lot of hopes on Caleb Jewell, as he is Tasmanian and scored a century in the same game. so good to look forward to something.


i was so full of hope back then. :(